One note I want to make here before I go on with the series. I will be posting them in different orders than when I first posted the series. Before, I tried to keep all of the prophecies in order as they come. While I could do that again, I have so much to talk about and so many notes from my original series, that it would take more months to reassemble everything. I'm not trying to be lazy, just posting each as they come to my mind in what I am seeing. God Bless!
From Matthew Chapter 24
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
I know that most have heard about the story of Noah and the ark- how animals came two by two and Noah and his family were safe from the flood, but there is so much more to the story than that. If you've ever read the account of Noah you know that Noah built that ark on direction from God, and that people who knew Noah laughed at him and mocked him. You can only imagine the types of things that people shouted at him, calling him stupid, or ridiculous. Telling him to forget that boat- live your life, and have fun. Do whatever you want. Be happy. They must have thought he was nuts. A fanatic. Sound familiar? Noah went through years and years of this, and I think he must have wondered more than a few times if what he was doing was really worth it. Well, he found out one day, as those first few rain drops fell, that yes, he had followed God through good and bad, and now, God was being faithful to him by saving him and his family from destruction. Not only though, did Noah have to listen to mockery and insults, no, he also implored his neighbors to turn from their wickedness, and help him- also to trust in God and be saved.
Yes, Noah did his share of evangelizing while he was building that ark. But the people would have none of it. As just like these days, people went on living their own lives, ignorant of what's to come. Not ignorant because of stupidity- but ignorance out of either ignoring the message so many have been telling them, or because they refuse to believe. People are buying and selling, giving and taking, getting married and raising kids. People are working and living. People are busy living. Is that wrong? No, of course not. It was God's command for us to scatter, be given in marriage and to populate the earth- as well as living His commands. It's this last part that so many have refused to follow.
With things political and things social, this world has come to the same place of society in Noah's day. So many things contrary to the laws of God- people not listening, but going on following their own way or the ways of whatever feels good for the moment- people are living contrary to God's commandments. People have, as in Jesus' day, ignored the message of the Messiah, the Savior, and gone on with their own thing. Those of us who are Bible believing Christians know that Jesus first came to save and show His love in sacrifice for our sins, but we also know that there will be a day when He comes back to judge the world for their non repentance for sins- those who have not asked Him to save them from sin. This is the great Judgment that most people who claim to know Jesus as a good teacher do not believe- that He is the one all who refused His salvation will have to come before some day in judgment.
People refuse to acknowledge that He will someday come to sift the wheat from the chaff- and those who denied Him, will be denied everlasting life with Him. These same people also think we're nuts because we believe that before the battle at Armageddon, or, as in the case of the Department of Homeland Security- we are dangerous because we believe in this. The body/church of His true followers will be raptured- that is taken away to Him, to leave the rest of the world to deal with the sin and wickedness of the Antichrist until Jesus comes for the final battle. I'm sure there will be many excuses from those who remain on this earth for the mass disappearance of Christ's faithful ones. Anything from sudden annihilation, or that we all got taken away by aliens to be reprogrammed or something. Even after warning after warning- they will still refuse to know that we are with Him, and they, unless they grasp the truth during the end of times, will be away from Him for eternity.
When I was not a Christian, I used to hear of people talking about this rapture business, and I thought it was a pile of hooey. I didn't understand it at the time, but since I've been born again of the Holy Spirit. I have come to see the verses myself which tells of the day- just not the hour, when Jesus will call all believers to Himself. The time is drawing steadily closer folks. Now is the time for decisions to be made. Will you put your trust in Him who declared Himself as the Only Way to God the Father, or will you still deny, even after the rest of us have been rescued as Noah was rescued from God's judgment?
I will talk more on the Rapture next time, as I know not everyone believes in this or some folks may not understand the meaning of the rapture.
End Note- you'll notice that in the above verses, Jesus calls Himself 'son of man'. Some claim that by calling himself that, He is not God in the flesh, but a perfect man born through man. Actually, in calling Himself this, He was declaring his deity. In verses such as this, you will also notice that the pharisees- went to pick up stones to kill Him- as they thought it was blasphemous- they knew exactly what He meant by calling Himself son of man. He is actually referring to one of the visions of Daniel in the old Testament, where Daniel says "I saw one 'like a son of man' coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the ancient of days and was lead into His presence. He was given the authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshipped Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and His kingdom is one that will never be destroyed." Now this is describing a person who is in the very presence of God Almighty's throne, and given supreme dominion, authority and is to be worshipped. Throughout scriptures, it is only God Himself who is to be worshipped. Therefore, Jesus as one like a son of man, is not meant as for his humanity, but as One to be exalted.
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Hi... I am here to let you know you have been nominated for an Awesome Blog 2009 Award! Stop by and see what category someone thought you should win!
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Hey Carolyn,
ReplyDeleteJust wondering; do you take the Noah story as a parable/metaphor?
It seems from what you've written that it displays the righteousness of following God, even in the face of ridicule.
Or do you accept it as a literal fact that the earth was flooded around 4,000 years ago?
Cheers,
Matt
Hi Matt- yes, I do take it for a literal world wide flood. I know there are a lot of people, Christian and others who do not, but I do. There are many other ancient civilizations which have stories handed down generations which talk about a huge flood, showing that the flood is known throughout other cultures. Does this prove Noah's flood was real? No, not on it's own, but it does show that other ancient people(after Noah's time) were aware of a flood. So, could it have been localized? Again, with other cultures from different parts of the world having heard stories about a flood shows that flooding happened in different areas.
ReplyDeleteSome people point to the lack of huge amounts of water and the ark’s not being able to hold every land-dwelling species on Earth. This is where Scriptural verification comes in through omparing verses. If you look at Psalm 104,verses 5-9, it describes the recently formed Earth, a time before creation of life, when oceans completely covered the earth. As the continents rose, the water collected in the ocean basins. The things described in these verses fit with known geologic facts and the formation of the first land masses on creation day three (Genesis 1:9-10). The Psalm then goes on to clearly say that water would never AGAIN TOTALLY cover the earth.
Also, when you read the account of the flood, it tells us that it didn't only rain for 40 days and nights, but the underground springs burst to the surface. We're talking a LOT of water. We've seen devestation in places like India, China, Central America etc. from flash floods, and those caused by hurricanes and stuff. Imagine a month long hurricane. When I lived in Texas, the longest rain I saw was for two and a half weeks, on and off. It caused a lot of flooding in low lying areas. Same goes with here in Florida. We have had days here where we have had over 9" of rain fall in a couple of hours. Multiply that amount over weeks without stopping, and it's not that much of a stretch to believe it could cover the earth, especially when back then, mountains were not fully formed yet.
One more thought for now. Some Geologists believe the Cretaceous period is a major turning point in earth’s history.
It shows the last of the major extinctions of many animals, comparable in amounts only by the Permian extinction. And it shows the beginning of the period when major tracts of land are submerged. It marks a time before mountains bean to really form.
If we look at these along with the Flood on or about day 150 as recorded in the Bible, we see the Biblical version as showing
every animal (other than sea creatures) not on the Ark is dead (Genesis 7:21)
The Ark is "sailing" over the oceans (Genesis 7:17) so there is no land anywhere to be seen; and
The mountains have not yet appeared from beneath the ocean but will do so in a matter of days (Genesis 8:4).
I do believe in the literal Word of the Bible, yes, even when I don't understand everything that is written in it. The flood shows a righteous and Almighty God, who is angry yes, with wicked behavior- but also shows His love for His people and even animals, to where He provides "salvation". It's a precursor to Jesus' giving mankind a chance at salvation, and also shows that He is willing to keep those who trust in Him away to escape the time when He will allow the end times to happen.
Thanks Matt for reading.
Carolyn, thanks for your response.
ReplyDeleteI'll grant, for the sake of argument, that the Flood occurred as described in Genesis, ok?
What can we say about it?
The whole world is flooded, billions of individual animals from essentially every single species that has ever lived (excluding insects etc) are dead or dying.
These countless bodies of elephants, dogs, kangaroos, dinosaurs, people, livestock etc, are mixed in with the sediment that has been swept up from the torrential rain (and ocean springs).
What do we expect to see when the flood waters recede?
I would suggest that a good hypothesis would be that we should find a single, gigantic sedimentary layer containing the fossilized remains of all the animals killed in the flood.
Many, if not all, of these animals should show signs of either drowning and/or suffocating through ingesting mud.
The animals should be found in no discernible grouping or order because they've been swirling around in muddy flood-waters for weeks.
If any order is to be found, we would expect to see the heavier animals near the bottom of this sedimentary layer as they would be more likely to sink sooner. Conversely, the lighter animals could be expected to survive longer by holding on to floating vegetation.
We should not find, throughout the layer of sediment, any evidence of burrows, nests, droppings or other easily destroyed remnants.
The sedimentary layer should be found globally.
There should be no evidence of human societies that existed before and after the Flood event, that show no signs of being flooded.
Would you agree with these hypotheses, given what we are told about the Flood in Scripture? Let me know what you think.
Regards,
Matt
Hi Matt. You've given me some interesting things to think about. Can you imagine what that would have been like if the waters just "seeped" into the ground?! That would have been really disgusting, not to mention smelly and dangerous with billions of rotting things.
ReplyDeleteLet's take the people first. I don't know how many people we'd be talking about. The earth wasn't that populated, at least I don't think it would have been. This part is all my own thoughts right here. I'm not going to try and figure out the math, but I don't imagine there would have been a million people yet, although I could be wrong. If you know, let me know please.
Anyway, yeah, even a million would be a lot of dead bodies floating around for a while.
And the animals- I would imagine there would be a huge number more animals than humans, so again, you're right in that with any air breathing thing, including insects would most likely have been dead.
OK. So, my own thoughts are that the waters didn't just evaporate or soak into the ground. Some evaporation would have happened, but not much. I believe that once it did start to go down, that a lot of smaller newly developing canyons and mountains moved the waters along at a torrential speed, and a lot of sediment and dead things got carried along with all that water.
(Sorry to sound so simple, I'm so used to talking with and teaching my son most of the day ;-) and it takes me a while to get into adult mode!
Anyway, There are chalk deposits around the world which are heavily laced with fossil deposits. We know chalk is a sedimentary rock, and given the rushing and receding waters, this makes sense that there would be lots of this to be found. In Europe they stretch from Ireland and all around England to Russia, to the Middle East in places like Israel and Egypt, the USA around Texas and Alabama and even in and around Australia. We could consider that they were deposited during the “Upper Cretaceous” period as many geologists believe.
Some places like the cliffs of Dover in England that have thick chalk patterns which simply contained some of the life-forms, which geologists have said are Jurassic and Cretaceous, which could have resulted from the flood.
The same fossils found and the same distinctive strata above and below them are also found around Perth, Western Australia.
On every continent are found layers of sedimentary rocks which cover huge areas. Many of the layers can be traced all the way across continents, and even between continents. When geologists look closely at these rocks, they find evidence that the sediments were deposited very quickly.
Even more so, fossils in Yunnan province in China and in Shale deposits of the Canadian Rockies have found that all animal organisms ever to exist in Earth’s history appeared all at once. This is called the Cambrian Explosion.
The most widely accepted idea among naturalistic biologists has been that more sea creatures such as sea stars, sand dollars, sea cucumbers, sea urchins, etc.are found around this time- These types of creatures and more ocean mammals fossils have been found all over the world- in the middle of continents, in the layers of rock and sediment of the Cretaceous period.
Coal beds as well, all over the world have similar deposits and plant fossils in them, pointing to a massive movement which was world wide.
It would be nearly impossible to dig through all of these places to discover just how many fossils including human bone fragments could be found miles in (not deep) these deposits.
Consider too, that there was the shifting of land masses and new mountain ranges starting around the time of the flood, so you could almost bet there was as much movement under the ocean as well. We could consider that much of the debris got caught up in all the shifting rocks and sand and sediments which settled in mountain valleys and cliffs under the ocean. Now, again, this is me speculating, but given the evidences for continental drifts, volcanic activity, earthquakes etc., it's not that much of a stretch.
I'm no scientist Matt, and as far as knowlege goes- I am far from knowing much. I am continuously learning, both the Bible and other subjects. I do believe though, from my years of studies so far that although, much is still faith based, I do see patterns in science, history, geography and religious studies that the Bible is in fact the Word of God given through men. I stake everything I am on Jesus as my savior, and that the Bible is His Word.
I do appreciate your questions and making me think Matt- I may be an unapologetic follower of Jesus, but I am always willing to discuss, listen and learn more- even if I don't agree with everything ;-) Thanks too for being polite!
Hey Carolyn,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your response. My typical way of replying to these posts is to quote the person I'm talking to and then respond to each quote. However, these comments are already getting pretty long so I'll try and boil it down as much as possible!
"I don't imagine there would have been a million people yet"According to eHistory.com, there were approx. 5 million people in the world around the year 5000BC, if that helps? By 1000BC it was up to 50million...
"There are chalk deposits around the world which are heavily laced with fossil deposits."They are not just 'laced' with fossil deposits, they are fossil deposits! It's made from the shed calcites of tiny micro-organisms that live in the oceans. The only way it can form is by slow, sedimentary layering.
Incidentally, if all the micro-organisms required to produce all the chalk in the world were alive in the last 6,000 years, there wouldn't be any room for any water...
"On every continent are found layers of sedimentary rocks which cover huge areas."These layers are distinct, made from different rock and containing different fossilized species in a clear chronology starting at the bottom and working its way up; amazing how a flood could produce such order, eh?
"all animal organisms ever to exist in Earth’s history appeared all at once. This is called the Cambrian Explosion."I'm sorry, but this is very, very wrong. Just check out the Wiki page on Cambrian Explosion to see just how wrong this is.
"It would be nearly impossible to dig through all of these places to discover just how many fossils including human bone fragments could be found miles in (not deep) these deposits."Well, in all the years we've been digging, we've never found a human fossil in a place where evolutionary theory says it shouldn't be. In fact, we've never found any fossil 'out of place'. Odd, don't you think?
Carolyn,
You can respond to these points, if you like and if you feel like I have misrepresented your views or misunderstood your points. But what I'd really like is for you to acknowledge or dispute the hypothetical evidences I mentioned in my first post. I'll re-type them here for convenience.
Would it be reasonable to expect the following, given the presence of a world-wide flood;
* a single, gigantic sedimentary layer containing the fossilized remains of all the animals killed in the flood.
* Many, if not all, of these animals should show signs of either drowning and/or suffocating through ingesting mud.
* The animals should be found in no discernible grouping or order because they've been swirling around in muddy flood-waters for weeks.
* If any order is to be found, we would expect to see the heavier animals near the bottom of this sedimentary layer as they would be more likely to sink sooner. Conversely, the lighter animals could be expected to survive longer by holding on to floating vegetation.
* We should not find, throughout the layer of sediment, any evidence of burrows, nests, droppings or other easily destroyed remnants.
* The sedimentary layer should be found globally.
* There should be no evidence of human societies that existed before and after the Flood event, that show no signs of being flooded.
What are your thoughts on these 7 points?
Kind Regards,
Matt
Hi Matt- I appreciate your way of looking at things, and I will admit, I don't know a whole lot about fossils and things except for what I've read. Not just creation views either. Your points are valid, and yes it would be a resonable thing to expect some evidence of what you asked about.
ReplyDeleteI do hear and read about fossils and carbon dates and archaeological finds from both main views- and I am much like I am with anything these days- I kind of go down the middle. That's to say, I accept certain ideas and question others from both sides, not necessarily because I do or don't believe them, but because much of the arguements on both sides are still hypothosis (sp?!) That is, no one really knows for sure. Sure some evidence could point one way or another, but new things are discovered every now and then which cancels out some earlier findings (depending on if you believe in the findings or not) kind of does have a lot to do with things too. I learned a long time ago, with things in life don't necessarily have to make sense and still be real. Things happen a lot, where we don't understnad what or why, and make no sense, or not much- but they still happen.
I will be the first to admit that I don't know scientifically and logically all the things in the Bible, or in science for that matter. I will always keep learning- but I know I will never have all the answers. My only thought here is that I believe in the Bible, and I believe the Holy Spirit of God shows us or reveals things to those who believe in Him about His word, so we can understand more. That's not to say He will tell us everything. Some thins He lets us figure out on our own, other things He chooses, I guess not to tell us- but if my belief is true- I will find out a whole lot of answers some day.
Sorry, Matt- I know this probably wasn't really what you were asking, but it's all I've got ;-)
I hope you keep on reading though, even if you don't believe it. It is interesting.
Thanks Matt~
Hey Carolyn,
ReplyDeleteThanks again for continuing the conversation. I realize that you've moved on to newer posts, so after this I'll have a look at the Rapture 'essay' (!) you posted earlier.
You said;
"Your points are valid, and yes it would be a reasonable thing to expect some evidence of what you asked about."Ok, well then why is it that we find none of this evidence anywhere?
In fact, the evidence we do find runs in complete contradiction to this.
* There is no single, gigantic sedimentary layer. There are localized layers of sediment consistent with the existence of ancient lakes, seas and oceans. We know this because we find animals that lived both in and out of the water at the edge of the layer, and fully-aquatic animals in the middle - just as you'd expect with an ancient lake.
* Some fossils do show evidence of this (drowning), but not nearly enough to be evidence that they all died in a flood
* The fossils are found in a distinct chronology, consistent with the theory of evolution's predictions regarding the emergence of new species. You never EVER find a modern animal fossilized below, say, a dinosaur. The accuracy of evolutionary predictions of fossil remains was borne out by the discovery of Tiktaalik - exactly where evolutionary scientists predicted it would be.
* Fossils certainly are not ordered by weight (as they would be in Flood conditions) because we find so much primitive multi-cellular life at the bottom and so many dinosaurs further up.
* We have found fossilized remains of nests, burrows, droppings and other delicate remnants of life on earth in the same rock as supposed Flood victims
* The layers of sediment we know are most certainly not global, in fact they are very well mapped out and understood.
* Have a look on Youtube for a video entitled; "An Archaeological Moment in Time" it shows a snapshot of human civilization around the world on a specific day long, long ago - it's very interesting.
Carolyn,
I get that you believe the Bible to be the Word of God, but I am also under the impression that you believe the world to be the Creation of God.
From your point of view, scientists are uncovering the nature of God's creation and they are finding that it does not comport with the description found in the Bible. The question is, what do you do when that happens?
Is it really that difficult to believe that the stories of Creation and Flooding are metaphorical (you've utilized this story to tell a morality tale in this very thread!) rather than literal?
Don't let these contradictions between science and Scripture force you to reject reality or hide behind a shield of faith. There are thousands of scientists who believe themselves to be saved and yet still acknowledge that the universe is very old and that evolution is a fact and that the Flood never happened.
There is not just a lack of evidence for a Global Flood, there is very strong evidence against the idea of a Global Flood.
In fact, the Flood story was disproved by Creation Scientist Geologists who set out to find evidence of it (this was around 100 years ago). They had to, begrudgingly, admit that there wasn't any evidence.
I hope you'll understand that I'm not trying to tear down your faith or anything of the sort, I'm just pointing out that there are no longer 'two sides' to this story, it is a very well established fact that the Flood did not happen. You know this, your common sense tells you this, your theology's dogma won't let you accept it though and that's the problem.
I hope you're well.
Regards,
Matt
Are you still there Carolyn?
ReplyDeleteMatt
Helllooooooo?
ReplyDelete;)
EPM. sometimes you are really funny ;) Nothing will help her, she's turned the Bible into her idol and now she worsips it... kinda sad actually, she could be enjoying learning about God's great creation.
ReplyDelete